<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: USB 3.0 is a replacement, and not an extension of USB 2.0</title>
	<atom:link href="http://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/</link>
	<description>Anything I found worthy to write down.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2026 13:15:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Li</title>
		<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/comment-page-1/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2021 17:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://billauer.se/blog/?p=4875#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>I can 100% confirm that you can run unmodified USB 3 signals straight into SFP+ transceivers. I can say this because I have a working device on my desk right now.

SFP+ optical transceivers are data-agnostic and they&#039;re actually very simple devices, the only function they perform is optical to electrical conversion. As long as your signal is a CML-like differential signal and has the correct swing level, SFP+ modules will happily transmit it - even if low-frequency operation is not specified, in practice it works. I heard some people have even successfully used it for 10 MHz clock distribution.

Speaking of receiver detection, the solution is also simple. The quick and dirty solution is simply connecting two AC-coupling capacitors and 50-ohm resistors to the SSRX pair. This hack is surprisingly effective, it simultaneously serves two purposes at once: First each line has a common-mode termination of 50 ohms so it can be detected by the transmitter. Second, it also level shifts the USB signal. USB 3.0&#039;s signal swing is up to 1200 mVpp, but many SFP+ modules only accept 600-850 mVpp. With an 50-ohm resistor it&#039;s now 50/25 voltage divider, reducing the swing by 0.66x, to 800 mVpp. Third, one may ask: doesn&#039;t the resistor destroy the impedance control of the transmission line? A quick simulation tells you that the return loss from a 90-ohm differential transmitter (USB 3 PHY) to a 100-ohm differential receiver (SFP+) with two 50-ohm resistors to ground is still better than 10 dB, which is good enough.

Of course, unconditionally connecting the resistor basically fools the transmitter into thinking that a receiver is always there regardless of the readiness of the far end, it will attempt to establish the link over and over again via LFPS. It still works in real life! Nevertheless, if you want to be a good citizen and follow the specs, I think you can simply put a high-speed RF switch in the data line or in the termination, and only close the switch when the far-end is ready, using the TX_DISABLE and RX_LOS for side-band coordination.

Finally, there are two limitations.

1. Loss budget. USB 3 allows up to 20 dB loss from the host to the device. If the device is not plugged directly into the USB port via USB-A (you can do this, but I&#039;m really not a fan of a huge device hanging on the USB port), but through a long cable, like USB-C, I think SFP+ modules may have difficulty transmitting a clear signal. Fortunately, you can use a USB Hub as a repeater to decouple the SFP+ and the cable.

2. The USB 2 is indeed a problem, no ideal solution exists, and it&#039;s not possible to solve the problem without violating the USB spec. But a good enough workaround is acceptable, the solution would be the VL670/VL671 ASIC by VIA Labs, Inc. It basically transparently upgrade an existing USB 2 device to USB 3 by emulation. 

I&#039;m currently developing a prototype reference design to do exactly what I said. It&#039;ll be published as a free and open source hardware design. Watch my blog for update ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can 100% confirm that you can run unmodified USB 3 signals straight into SFP+ transceivers. I can say this because I have a working device on my desk right now.</p>
<p>SFP+ optical transceivers are data-agnostic and they&#8217;re actually very simple devices, the only function they perform is optical to electrical conversion. As long as your signal is a CML-like differential signal and has the correct swing level, SFP+ modules will happily transmit it &#8211; even if low-frequency operation is not specified, in practice it works. I heard some people have even successfully used it for 10 MHz clock distribution.</p>
<p>Speaking of receiver detection, the solution is also simple. The quick and dirty solution is simply connecting two AC-coupling capacitors and 50-ohm resistors to the SSRX pair. This hack is surprisingly effective, it simultaneously serves two purposes at once: First each line has a common-mode termination of 50 ohms so it can be detected by the transmitter. Second, it also level shifts the USB signal. USB 3.0&#8242;s signal swing is up to 1200 mVpp, but many SFP+ modules only accept 600-850 mVpp. With an 50-ohm resistor it&#8217;s now 50/25 voltage divider, reducing the swing by 0.66x, to 800 mVpp. Third, one may ask: doesn&#8217;t the resistor destroy the impedance control of the transmission line? A quick simulation tells you that the return loss from a 90-ohm differential transmitter (USB 3 PHY) to a 100-ohm differential receiver (SFP+) with two 50-ohm resistors to ground is still better than 10 dB, which is good enough.</p>
<p>Of course, unconditionally connecting the resistor basically fools the transmitter into thinking that a receiver is always there regardless of the readiness of the far end, it will attempt to establish the link over and over again via LFPS. It still works in real life! Nevertheless, if you want to be a good citizen and follow the specs, I think you can simply put a high-speed RF switch in the data line or in the termination, and only close the switch when the far-end is ready, using the TX_DISABLE and RX_LOS for side-band coordination.</p>
<p>Finally, there are two limitations.</p>
<p>1. Loss budget. USB 3 allows up to 20 dB loss from the host to the device. If the device is not plugged directly into the USB port via USB-A (you can do this, but I&#8217;m really not a fan of a huge device hanging on the USB port), but through a long cable, like USB-C, I think SFP+ modules may have difficulty transmitting a clear signal. Fortunately, you can use a USB Hub as a repeater to decouple the SFP+ and the cable.</p>
<p>2. The USB 2 is indeed a problem, no ideal solution exists, and it&#8217;s not possible to solve the problem without violating the USB spec. But a good enough workaround is acceptable, the solution would be the VL670/VL671 ASIC by VIA Labs, Inc. It basically transparently upgrade an existing USB 2 device to USB 3 by emulation. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently developing a prototype reference design to do exactly what I said. It&#8217;ll be published as a free and open source hardware design. Watch my blog for update ;-)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eli</title>
		<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/comment-page-1/#comment-1498</link>
		<dc:creator>eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2020 09:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://billauer.se/blog/?p=4875#comment-1498</guid>
		<description>Hello,

The USB 3.0 spec is explicit about that all wiring, both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 wires are connected between each device and host / hub, so you will definitely be violating the spec by letting only the SSTX / SSRX wires through for one of the devices.

Having said that, I can tell from personal experience that if you connect only the SSTX / SSRX wires, it works perfectly well. You should also have the GND connected to prevent excessive DC voltages.

However since you&#039;re breaking the rules, and is not in control of the device, I can see a possibility that the device refuses to play ball with the 3.0-only wiring. Not very expected, but yet possible.

If it&#039;s very specific hardware involved, I would get myself a USB 3.0 extension cable, and cut off the non-3.0 wires, and see what happens when the device is behind it. Just be sure to test that it connects as USB 3.0 before doing the cuts. Some extension cables are junk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>The USB 3.0 spec is explicit about that all wiring, both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 wires are connected between each device and host / hub, so you will definitely be violating the spec by letting only the SSTX / SSRX wires through for one of the devices.</p>
<p>Having said that, I can tell from personal experience that if you connect only the SSTX / SSRX wires, it works perfectly well. You should also have the GND connected to prevent excessive DC voltages.</p>
<p>However since you&#8217;re breaking the rules, and is not in control of the device, I can see a possibility that the device refuses to play ball with the 3.0-only wiring. Not very expected, but yet possible.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s very specific hardware involved, I would get myself a USB 3.0 extension cable, and cut off the non-3.0 wires, and see what happens when the device is behind it. Just be sure to test that it connects as USB 3.0 before doing the cuts. Some extension cables are junk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/comment-page-1/#comment-1497</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2020 17:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://billauer.se/blog/?p=4875#comment-1497</guid>
		<description>I was thinking about a project I am working on and right now I have a USB 2.0 (even though its a USB 3.0 port) connected to a switch and then connected to a USB 3.0 Micro B connector (even though I am only getting the USB 2.0 connection). The switch only has 4 positions and this is why I didn&#039;t use the USB 3.0. This connection is between a router and a hard drive and the switch is used to alternate between loading data to the drive in one position and the other position is for direct connection between the router and the drive. So after reading this I am thinking I can eliminate the switch. I can have the USB 2.0 to a port for loading data to the drive and the USB 3.0 between the router and the drive for normal operation. Does this make sense? I can send a wiring diagram to you. Does the USB 3.0 need power along with the SSTX pair, SSRC pair, and ground?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking about a project I am working on and right now I have a USB 2.0 (even though its a USB 3.0 port) connected to a switch and then connected to a USB 3.0 Micro B connector (even though I am only getting the USB 2.0 connection). The switch only has 4 positions and this is why I didn&#8217;t use the USB 3.0. This connection is between a router and a hard drive and the switch is used to alternate between loading data to the drive in one position and the other position is for direct connection between the router and the drive. So after reading this I am thinking I can eliminate the switch. I can have the USB 2.0 to a port for loading data to the drive and the USB 3.0 between the router and the drive for normal operation. Does this make sense? I can send a wiring diagram to you. Does the USB 3.0 need power along with the SSTX pair, SSRC pair, and ground?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: eli</title>
		<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/comment-page-1/#comment-1384</link>
		<dc:creator>eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2018 05:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://billauer.se/blog/?p=4875#comment-1384</guid>
		<description>Indeed: If you connect only USB 2.0 devices to a USB 3.0 hub, it will perform exactly the same as a USB 2.0 hub. The USB 3.0 lanes will be detected by the host, but will carry no traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed: If you connect only USB 2.0 devices to a USB 3.0 hub, it will perform exactly the same as a USB 2.0 hub. The USB 3.0 lanes will be detected by the host, but will carry no traffic.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>https://billauer.se/blog/2015/12/usb-superspeed-parallel/comment-page-1/#comment-1383</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2018 04:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://billauer.se/blog/?p=4875#comment-1383</guid>
		<description>Thank you for helpful information, I have a question in this regard, You said by using a USB3 hub that is connected, let&#039;s say to 4 USB2, it does not mean that the host is working on 5Gb/s while the ports are working on 500kb/s? right? If 4xUSB2 devices are connected to the USB3 hub (by leaving SSRX and SSTX float) you mean that the USB3 host plug works at USB2 speed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for helpful information, I have a question in this regard, You said by using a USB3 hub that is connected, let&#8217;s say to 4 USB2, it does not mean that the host is working on 5Gb/s while the ports are working on 500kb/s? right? If 4xUSB2 devices are connected to the USB3 hub (by leaving SSRX and SSTX float) you mean that the USB3 host plug works at USB2 speed?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
